PIMCO and Entrepreneurship: Two Unique Paths to Bulge-Bracket Investment Banking

The following text is from an interview conducted with Rose and Kevin in February 2021.

Let’s start with the basics – what were you up to before business school, and what led you to pursue a career in investment banking?

Kevin: I was working at PIMCO, a buy-side active fixed income investment manager, in a client-facing role. I enjoyed interacting with clients, finance and capital markets in general, but I wanted to get closer to actual transaction work, whether that be direct investing or structuring transactions. I originally wanted to do IRAM (Investment Research and Asset Management), but I got sold on investment banking when talking to 2nd years, alumni and professional colleagues about the process. Investment banking encompasses everything that I’m looking for, and luckily for me, it was a relatively small pivot going into a Leveraged Finance group.

Rose: I had no idea what IB was before business school. I started a renewable energy company in New York, and from that experience- I knew I wanted to be in finance, but wasn’t sure how that would manifest. I had a couple of conversations with 2nd years in OE, culminating in Arthur [Cheokas] and Chris [Yu] both spending over an hour on the phone with me over the summer convincing me to pursue banking. I thought I wanted to fund space missions, I still think I’ll do that eventually, but they told me I could do banking and gave me an overview of the kind of doors that IB opens, so I was eventually sold on it as a post-MBA career. Definitely a significant career pivot!

I think it is safe to say you were both very strong candidates with very different backgrounds. Diving into recruiting, how did you think about leveraging your past experiences to make connections and build relationships with your interviewers?

Kevin: My background was definitely advantageous for recruiting. Being in a client role at PIMCO, my job for several years was relationship building on Wall Street and understanding financial markets. I am a CFA charterholder, I knew the lingo… recruiting just felt like an extension of that role.

Rose: The majority of my career has been client facing as well, and I spent a lot of time finessing the way in which I communicated this non-traditional, non-finance background of mine. I had to market myself to show capability in the associate role by playing to my strengths. I was genuine, and a bit self-effacing at times, but my past proved that I was never afraid to ask for help and willing to go all in on the work and teach myself everything I needed to get the job done. The most arduous task of the interview process was – hands down- the technical questions. Kevin helped a lot.

How did you feel about technicals at the start of the semester?

Rose: It was a slow, brutal grind, but one day I woke up and it just clicked. I knew them.

Kevin: I did not come in knowing the specifics of technicals, but I had built [financial] models during undergrad and being a CFA charterholder, I had a pretty strong base. I still had to learn the technicals, but I had a general understanding and foundation.

If you had to take yourself back to September, how were you feeling going into your first corporate briefing?

Rose: I think because I had no background or expectations, I felt pretty calm and comfortable.

Kevin: No one knew what was going to happen because this was the first time being virtual for us AND the banks, there were many unknowns. You are definitely nervous because you know you represent yourself, Old Ezra and Johnson at these events. The environment was unique because everyone was very buttoned up on top (suit and tie), yet wearing sweatpants at the same time, but everyone was excited.

Informal interviews or “coffee chats” are a major part of the recruiting process – did you have a coffee chat strategy, and what was your frame of mind going into each conversation?

Rose: Yes, definitely had a strategy. I would do my pitch, do the banter, and then subtly drive the conversation around on my covert research. I read a study that essentially said that people love talking about themselves – so much so that it activates dopamine receptors in the brain… anyway, I’d finesse the conversation around their experiences and the uniqueness of the firm from their eyes.  I ended every interview with the same question: “What is the one thing in quarantine you do to combat Zoom fatigue and stay sane?”

Kevin: I would structure the conversation differently depending on the seniority of the person. You had to know technicals, you had to know the bank – things like major headlines and how the bank is doing as a company. If I could, I would try to learn about the group specifically. From there, I structured my questions to be as conversational as possible. I would try to end each coffee chat with the question, “What’s your favorite thing about this team?”

You were kind of the guinea pigs of virtually recruiting on Wall St. Can you just share what that experience was like?

Kevin: I think overall it was good but there were pros and cons. It was good because logistically you could jump from one Zoom to another in 5 seconds, instead of having to drive to NYC every week running from office to office - and your dry-cleaning bill was a lot cheaper. It was hard because it was tougher to make personal connections with people and you had to be careful with your eyes, so they did not think you were distracted or looking at notes.

Rose: The virtual process was very weird. It’s exhausting staring into a camera and smiling all day, but it was even worse for the bankers. I tried to be extra cognizant of that by being as engaging as possible and discussed subjects that we were passionate about, so the conversation would flow naturally. At a high level, I focused on being the person they could work 100 hours a week with.

Most of us also had the opportunity to develop a pre-interview ritual, since we were sitting in our rooms instead of outside an office at a bank. What was your pump-up song before interviews?

Rose: Strauss’ Blue Danube Waltz

Kevin: Lima, by the Parlors

Rose, what would you tell a prospective student coming from a non-traditional background, and likewise Kevin, what would you say to a student with previous experience in finance?

Rose: The staggering amount of raw information I needed to learn felt overwhelming and was the biggest hurdle coming in blind. That being said, if you have the other elements of likeability and marketing skills, you have more room to slip. 

Kevin: Be prepared. Coming from a finance background and being a CFA charterholder, you need to be prepared, if you are not then you are going to get called out very quickly. Do your homework, and if you don’t know something, figure it out.

Was there any advantage you saw of recruiting from Johnson versus other business schools?

Kevin: The second years were an incredible help. They help you prepare for recruiting, think through what you really want, what you are looking for, and it helps to clarify things in the hectic months of recruiting.

Rose: And the network you gain from alumni is incredible – that can be said for almost any school, but the Johnson advantage is that our alumni give you the time and want to set you up for success regardless of what bank you gaining traction at. Alumni want to see what’s best for you – even after I was cut from a particular process, several Johnson alum called and just reassured me that we would see each other in the future.

What are you most excited about for your summer internships?

Kevin: To finally get started. You work so hard for the first few months during recruiting to land an internship.  This [spring] semester is tough because you are ready to get started once recruiting is over.

Rose: I miss working in the industry- I’m so excited to be back in the Energy & Infrastructure space and apply the finance knowledge I picked up this semester! And if I have time… which I probably won’t… SoHo house.

Rose and Kevin can be reached at rkh67@cornell.edu and klc268@cornell.edu respectively.